Dr. Atwood: I'm not sure that I understand the question. Are you saying is anger a behavioral disorder, is it learned, or is it something that they are born with?
CWR: Yes.
Dr. Atwood: OK. Basically, what I believe is that there are, you know behavioral manifestations of anger, and that primarily it's a learned kind of thing. That people learn how to deal with frustration, they learn how to deal with sadness, and etc. But that we also have a temperament. And some people are very laid back, and some people are more high-strung, and depending on what your temperament is, you might react to what is happening in the environment differently, so ah --- basically it's a combination of the two things but primarily I would say it's a learned behavior.
CWR: Although we have a diverse age, gender, and ethnic readership with The College World Reporter, we have people from many different backgrounds, our primary audience is college and university students, professors, and administrators. Is anger a major issue among college and university students?
Dr. Atwood: I would say that it's from around teenage years up, that is what I receive the most calls about. Whether it's in a couple relationship, whether it's an older couple or younger couple, or teenage anger, young adult anger. Out of all the requests for therapy that anger and anger management, or the lack thereof, is what I receive the most calls about. So I would say it definitely is an issue.
The other thing I wanted to add to what I had said before is that anger also is something that is learned, in that we learn a response for certain situations. But it also contains a component of what we haven't learned. We haven't learned how to control impulses and we haven't learned how to use verbal communication to get our frustration across. So it has a learned component and it also has a component, not that it's biological or something, but that it has a component also of what we haven't learned.
CWR: You have sort of addressed this question already, but, just to elaborate a little further. How does one's anger get so out of control that anger management is required? Is it the result of a bad home environment, is it hereditary, or just what are the causes?
Dr. Atwood: Well, I think, you know, as we said before, that it has a lot to do with temperament, and that some people are just quick to the draw, and other people are more slow, and their temperament is more like that, and that's the part that's biological and inborn, and that's with regard to everything, anger included.
But the part that refers specifically to anger is, I don't want to say a bad home, I don't want to give it that label. It really is something that the person has, ah, a way that the person has learned to respond and communicat, because anger is the way the person communicates. In other words they don't know how to communicate in a way that is more productive for them. So they communicate by trying to intimidate, or trying to get their message across.
And that's our fault! As an educational system I believe, we don't teach in our classes, we don't teach children how to communicate. Our main method of communication in this society is to defend or attack. If someone says something to us we either defend ourselves or we attack back. And we don't teach our children how to mirror, how to reflect, how to validate; we should be teaching those things in the schools, K-12, so that by the time children enter into college, that these skills are well practiced and they are skills that have been enhanced, and they know how to verbally get their message across.
CWR: So are the affects of anger mostly mental and emotional?
Dr. Atwood: Sure! And it can have physical consequences and it could have emotional consequences, it affects the person themselves because they don't want to be getting out of control. So it affects them, it affects their relationships. If they are in a couple relationship it will affect the relationship. It can affect the work environment, the school environment, ah, it affects every environment they come in contact with because they are out of control basically. When a certain set of variables are present, they lost it! They have no recognition of early warning signs, or, they go from zero to sixty in one second.
CWR: But physical health can be harmed also?
Dr. Atwood: Absolutely! I mean, stress is, heart rate goes up, blood pressure goes up. Being in a constant state of rage and anger is certainly not healthy.
CWR: For parents and school officials, or for that matter, anyone involved in an interpersonal relationship with someone else, at what age should there be concern if someone gives indications they may be having problems with controlling anger?
Dr. Atwood: I would say early on, five years old, even earlier. You have two year olds who, sometimes two year olds will have little temper fits because they are not yet skilled at using their words, so they get very frustrated around trying to get their message across, and then they have a temper fit. But certainly at five they have words and they should have, you know they should be skilled at getting their message across, so if they're still having temper fits, then I think a type of anger management training would be appropriate.
CWR: Do most people who have anger management problems recognize they have a problem, or is this something that others have to bring to their attention?
Dr. Atwood: I would say both. A lot of times the wives will say my husband needs anger management and they will say I'm getting a divorce unless you go for anger management. And sometimes vice versa, where the husband will say to the wife I'm getting a divorce unless you go for anger management. But a lot of times it's the wife who brings the husband in.
Usually it's the other person, but, I haven't had a person come in and say, "You know she's off the wall! I don't get angry like that." You know they know that they do. They know that they're throwing things, that they're in a rage, that they're on the verge of being physically abusive or are physically abusive. They know what they're doing. Unless they're in extreme denial, they are aware. They don't like what they're doing. A lot of times, they really, they may feel justified while they're in the heat of an argument, but after it's over they don't like what they're doing; so they are ashamed.
CWR: In a situation where someone has a problem with anger, and a friend, relative, or associate has brought this to their attention and encouraged them to seek professional help, but the individual does nothing, and the problem gets worse. What, if anything, should the concerned person do?
Dr. Atwood: Well there of course are certain things they could do, they could not engage them. So that ah, you know if it's a couple, let's say it's the woman, she needs not to engage him. She needs to either leave the premises or, not get engaged and just mirror him: "I understand what you're saying, you're saying that you feel this way." Just mirror. But the best advice is to not engage.
CWR: What suggestions or recommendations would you give to someone who has a difficult problem accepting the fact that they have a problem with anger to try to encourage them to seek help?
Dr. Atwood: Well I would ask them some questions about how they feel it has affected their relationships. In other words are they finding themselves too often in a problem at work, where they are raising their voices, or in a struggle with a person at work and it's happening frequently; it's happened more than once. I would ask them about that.
See once they have the facts in front of them, it's pretty hard for them to deny. And I would also put it to them in a non-judgmental way. In other words, this is affecting you, and I know that you don't like what you're doing, and I know that you would like to make your relationship better, so, this might be a way to make that happen.
CWR: In the scenario just discussed, would it be best to bring along others who are aware of the problem, and who are concerned, to encourage the person to seek professional help?
Dr. Atwood: You mean sort of like an intervention?
CWR: Yes.
Dr. Atwood: I would say if the problem is severe, and if it is really disruptive in terms of family or the relationship; definitely.
CWR: What are usually the results if someone is out of control with their anger, and they don't get the professional care they need?
Dr. Atwood: Well, they lose relationships. People don't want to deal with that, so they stop approaching the person or they get themselves out of the relationship. They have problems at work, they might get fired, they might get called in by the boss, or human resources. So, it can affect every aspect of their life.
They might physically be strung out to the extent that their blood pressure is rising and they need medication. Being in a constant state of stress, is problematic for health. So it can affect their immune system. There are many long term and short term affects of anger.
CWR: Does it often manifest itself in violence toward others.
Dr. Atwood: It can. It can. But I wouldn't say that it always does that. There are people who scream and yell and try to intimidate people with anger, but they don't violate another person with physical abuse.
CWR: Dr. Atwood, we thank you for all of the important information you shared with us about anger management. But now, let's talk about you. Can you share with us what a typical day is like for you?
Dr. Atwood: Well, I do a lot of different things. I'm a professor, and I see clients, I have a private practice and I have therapists who work for me. I write and do research. So, in any given day, I'll be doing, you know, a lot of different things.
For example I'll be preparing today a course that I'm teaching in July on ethics. And winding down of course tonight I'm teaching on families in transition. And then, Saturday will be seeing clients, Monday I'll be seeing clients. And I'm involved in a major research project now, on couples and finances, and how couples handle their money and what meaning money has in the relationship. So, my life is very varied. And then I plant flowers when I'm not doing anything else.
CWR: For our readers who may be interested in becoming a therapist, are there any natural skills or abilities that would help someone be successful in your field?
Dr. Atwood: Well there are certain people who are natural born counselors. People gravitate toward them, they ask their advice, maybe they're, you know, the "wise owls," you know even though they're 18 years old, where people will come to them for help if they're having a problem. They're the natural born kinds of counselors. And if a person has that skill and enjoys doing it, then it would be a good idea for them to pursue a career in counseling, or psychology, or social work; one of the helping professions.
CWR: What can an undergraduate college student do while they are in college, to prepare for a career in your field? Are there campus clubs, organizations, trade associations with college memberships they can join, or possibly internships that may be available?
Dr. Atwood: Ah, yes. They can ah, first of all they should get a bachelors degree in one of the helping professions. They have bachelors in Psych, they have bachelors in Social Science, Family Studies, one of the, Social Work, one of the helping professions.
Then they can always volunteer. They can volunteer at a private practitioner's office, or at a counseling center. On campus they could become part of student counseling, they could volunteer for that. Even if they do work study at student counseling, they'll still get a sense of what goes on in a counseling agency. So they'll be able to learn.
There are gay and lesbian organizations on campus, they can head toward the counseling portion of those organizations. Wherever there is counseling going on or a counseling center, a helping kind of resource for students, any one of those things would be helpful for them.
CWR: Do you recommend that students interested in getting into your field seek out mentors or role models, and if so, how do you suggest that they find a correct match for a mentor or role model on campus or in the community?
Dr. Atwood: Sometimes students wil have a professor where they click or they start doing research together. Sometimes a professor in the field that they're interested in will agree to be interviewed, ah, so that they can interview the professor and ask ah, you know, questions about how they entered the...exactly what you're doing basically. I know that they have student organizations that will interview professors, they have a student newsletter that can go and ask professors...they can apply for a work study job with a professor who is in the field they are interested in. They can be a TA for another professor who is also working in the field. There are several things that they can do on campus.
CWR: Obviously the Internet is a great source for research for students interested in learning more about a career as a therapist, but are there any specific websites you recommend?
Dr. Atwood: The apa.org, that's the American Psychological Association website. The American Counseling Association website, that's aca.org. The American Family Therapists, that's aamft.org. Ah, the National Association of Social Workers. They all have websites which list career opportunities and the person will get a very good idea as to what the career in that particular field looks like.
Also, in many states if you go to the regulatory board, for example in New York we have the New York State Regulatory Board, the board that regulates the professions. They will list the scope of practice, which defines the practice. So if you want to know what a social worker does, you can go to the New York State Regulatory Board and look up social worker and it will define what they can do. And the same for a psychologist, the same for American Family Therapists, for counselors, so it defines what the practice is.
For example, psychologists can do testing, social workers can't do testing. They can do other things that a psychologist can't do. So it actually defines what they can do, and that will give the student a very good idea as to what a career in that profession would look like.
CWR: This is a personal question. Taking into consideration your family upbringing, your community influences, your secondary and college education, your cultural growth and development, and your total overall life experience, reflecting on that, what would you say has contributed most to your success?
Dr. Atwood: I had a very strong interest when I was taking courses in college in psychology and human behavior, and I then just kept pursuing it.
CWR: What personal advice for success, and any other suggestions or comments would you offer for our readers?
Dr. Atwood: I would say go for your own therapy, so that you get a very strong idea of what therapy is like, and it will also help you to understand your own behaviors more, and understand basically what motivates you, and that will be very helpful if you are doing therapy with others. So going for your own therapy is one thing, and exploring all of the options we have spoken about, in terms of academic learning, in terms of volunteering, and ah, in terms of getting to know the profession and what it is about.
You know I had a client one time who, ah, he had a really good job, he was a sport psychologist, and he was hell-bent on being a teacher. So he completely, ah, went back to school and started to get a second degree in teaching. And he was fine with it until he hit the schools, where he had to do student teaching. And he was in the classroom for a week before he knew he could never do it and hated it. So understand what the profession really entails so that it's not fantasy it's reality.
CWR: I find it interesting that you recommend that students interested in becoming therapists go in for their own therapy. With the current state of the economy and world affairs and the stresss, sometimes subtle or suppressed stress, is it a good idea for all of us to include a regular therapy session as a part of our annual medical checkup or wellness program?
Dr. Atwood: Absolutely, ah, it's important to establish a relationship with your therapist, so, you have to like your therapist. So that takes a regular basis type therapy for maybe six months, and after that, to check in, ah, and to ah, basically say to the therapist, you know, this is where I'm at, this is just an update.
I had a client one time who absolutely loved therapy, and I think the main reason she loved it is because she had four children, young, they were like 4, 3, 2, and 1. And it was the only time in her life where she was able to just relax and talk about herself.
So people go for therapy for different reasons, and I think that was part of why she was there. She was overwhelmed, she was strung out, and for one hour a week she could count on being in a place where it was comfortable, relaxing, and she could just say whatever she felt like saying.
So people do come for therapy for many different reasons, and going for a mental health checkup is a good idea, after you've established a relationship with a therapist.
Contact Information:
Marriage & Family Therapists of New York
19 West 34th Street
New York, NY 10001
516-764-2526